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What do you make of the president's response and how he handled this? >> i think it's interesting because you can hear in his voice that the tone was different. it wasn't an immediate punch back. he didn't feel like he got punched in his kind of -- and counterpunching. you can feel a sense of sort of remorse but also he felt like he was wronged. when it comes to the white house in general i think it's just a matter of when people leave or when they get on his bad side and not if that happens. it just seems like a scale. but this is someone who had been in the white house since the beginning. a...

Author of "beyond charlottesville" taking a stance against white nationalism. how are you doing, terry? >> did you have a good 4th? >> chris cuomo had a big interview with the bidens and his wife as well. did joe biden's campaign, did he get it back on track after his debate performance and his bussing of segregation controversy? >> yeah, i thought his interview with chris cuomo was excellent. he helped himself tremendously. he rebounded from the last debate he had. the upcoming debate on cnn, you will be one of the questioners, it got to be very important and he got to show strengths and take...

In my mind also that we will win. >> can't be lovely and lose. do you think that's what democrats really want to see for their candidates to get in the mud with trump? >> are you asking me? >> yes, sorry, governor, yes. >> yeah, yeah, i do think that democrats want to know, can you throw a punch back? it doesn't have to be getting into the mud. it can be a strong solid punch. they want to know are you a warrior on my behalf? because trump is a bully. he is that guy as joe biden said in the school yard. and when you are bullied you have one or two -- of two choices. you can become a bully or st...

And frankly, i was sort of surprised that he had that kind of punch back. but i think to your point, he did look unprepared for something that clearly was going to be brought up last night. >> he was prepared on that point that you just raise because i think there were a lot of people on the left side of the democratic party with her regard to her history as a prosecutor attorney general of california sending a lot of people to jail on minor drug crimes and marijuana crimes and the like and her pursuit of that and support of the police on that. >> sandra: is that moment going to hurt joe biden...

He raised tens of millions of dollars during the midterms, which is unprecedented for a president to do. so we are -- it is going to be a tight election in 2020. it is going to be incredibly nasty. >> let me counter that though. he may be a desperate man. he may be frightening to some. he's also very damaged. >> yeah, it's true. >> you can see it in his behavior. you can see it in his physical -- what he puts out physically. also, you know, the first time around, no one knew how to deal with him because no one knew what was coming. i mean, some of this stuff that he would say was just so out t...