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Speculation on that point on twitter and elsewhere. and, you know, typically with folks in trump's orbit, if there's a spectrum between, like, incredibly devious sort of manipulative puppet mastery and just clumsy incompetence, it's usually closer to the clumsy incompetence. i think that's what happened here, they were very indiscrete. >> so, that's part of his defense, that the people around trump are not button down, carolyn? >> right, absolutely. it reminds you of the mar-a-lago seen when they had a conversation about national security and geopolitical crises in the middle of a party. >> il...

>> did you ever have the sense that they wanted to be heard? >> well, that last part first. i don't get the sense that they wanted to be heard. i've seen a little bit of speculation on that point on twitter and elsewhere. and, you know, typically with folks in trump's orbit, if there's a spectrum between, like, incredibly devious sort of manipulative puppet mastery and just clumsy incompetence, it's usually closer to the clumsy incompetence. i think that's what happened here, they were very indiscrete. >> so, that's part of his defense, that the people around trump are not button down, carolyn...

Elsewhere. and, you know, typically with folks in trump's orbit, if there's a spectrum between like incredibly devious sort of manipulative puppet mastery and just clumsy and incompetence, it's almost always going to be closer to that clumsy incompetence. so i think that's what happened here, that they were just very indiscreet. i was sitting there, as you suggested, with a source having a source lunch and noticed these two guys come in and my source was like, we'll walk down the street together. i said why don't you just go yourself and i'm going to hang on. i sat there typing on my iphone, t...