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Difficult for russian business to thrive to the extent it does. i think it's better to think about it in terms of pressure of put tin rather than cutting him off from certain financial assets. >> there have been warnings of cyberattacks on the u.s. and other western nations. can you explain to our audience what does putin have to gain from cyberattacks, and how americans can protect themselves from russian hacking? >> the big thing here in the russian mindset the concept of parity. what people in the cyber world in the united states are worried about, since we're the center of the world financ...

They look at the united states enacting more and more sanctions on russia, talking about put tin -- the president called him a killer. they're also looking for something better out of this. but it's going to be very hard because this is a central issue that you talked about in your book, the shadow wars. so much of what is going on with russia's behavior is happening in the shadows, by which i mean in cyberspace. that really has become the central theme of russian interference right now. ukraine is in the past in the sense that crimea is annexed, even though they continue to do activities in e...

Another theme there for him calling out china as well. >> and a lot of this, the g-7, then the nato summit, conversations with europeans, it's all sort of a preview to get you to geneva and put tin. biden trying to say, yes, there's two of us in the room but everybody in the g-7 is concerned about this. president putin listened to him here in this interview, we know he interfered in the last two u.s. presidential elections, we know that both russia as a state and russia allows criminal networks, essentially, to exist inside russia. we know that, because it's pretty obvious. and u.s. intelligen...

Messages that he is planning to give along with what he's bringing, as you said, which is all the clear support from the nato and g-7 countries. >> what are the pros at the state department say as a metric to judge how this conversation can be a success, you're not going to get put tin to say, oh, i'll be a good guy, that's not going to happen. in the sense the obama administration said it was going to reset things with russia, george w. bush said he looked into his soul. the trump administration, the administration itself did do some tough things against russia but the president said he belie...

Foreign country -- >> including mr. putin, sir? would you acknowledge mr. put tin as well? >> i was investigated, me, me, in my campaign. i ran, i won. i was investigated. you won't say that, will you? i was investigated. i was investigated and they think it could have been by uk. they think it could have been by australia. they think it could have been by italy. so when you get down to it, i was investigated by the obama administration, by the obama administration i was investigated. so when these people talk -- as far as i'm concerned, what i want to look at and what we want to investigate, ...