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Very thinly still stick together and almost falling apart. but i would also imagine it might strengthen putin's hand a little bit because exactly that. i mean, he was able to somehow do something like that, turning prigozhin around. and that probably would be good fluff for him for now to keep his power which i think is basically what he's doing, with all his words and actions. >> go back in history and see if it's relevant to what's happening in the kremlin now. you said that, you know, when a leader is challenged in this way, even though he gets out of it, and you know, people could see that...

To send a relatively small column of wagner troops in to moscow where they're bound to get lost amongst police forces trying to control such a vast area. but it is fair to look at the last 24 hours as a time which has significantly weakened vladimir putin. and i don't think we've fully known the entirety of how that's played out. startling to see this, and a remarkable moment of prigozhin suddenly it seems deciding to deescalate. but he is vague about where his columns will be, in field camps, he says, they'll go after they've turned around. that could mean on the way to moscow. it could mean ...

Of russia as a riddle wrapped up in a -- in an enigma and the rest. in other words, you just don't know until you know. so it looks like prigozhin was trying to send a message to the ministry of defense and to the head of the russian armed forces. those people have been his targets since the beginning of this war, and he's complained bitterly that they have completely messed up and literally botched the invasion and the war in ukraine, and that he has presented himself and his independent paramilitary force as the russian saviors, if you like. and pretty much they are the own ones who have sco...

So my theory is is that what he's doing is perhaps slowing down for now having made a very important point to putin, and i think having weakened putin significantly. the lukashenko part of this, lukashenko's a puppet, these are table scraps for him. stuff that makes him look like the big man he wants to be and every once in a while putin will send something. i don't think it's important, and i don't believe he was instrumental in reach something agreement with prigozhin on this. >> given that people have described, you know, putin's grip on power and the structure of it as, you know, fairly ma...

Anymore really by anybody in the kremlin. >> well, exactly. and i guess obviously the west and ukraine looking aing carefu and hoped there would be a proper challenge to putin to stop this war. there's also the battlefield to talk about. we just spoke to a putin ally from his own party who said that putin could not afford to have a multi-pronged, multifronted war against him, whether within with the paramilitary group, whether it's with ukrainians, whoever else it's with. so putin has dodged a bit of a bullet here. >> possibly. it really depends on a lot of stuff that i think is going on behin...