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Can and can't do, so he may have thought this was something a president could do an he's just never asked. so his ignorance is playing into a lot of this as well. but i think that it's just a false charge. he seems, joy, and you've seen this in other instances, where he projects out what he's doing and what he feels guilty about, he's trying to place in other people. when hillary accused him of being a putin puppet, he called her and it just made no sense, like this makes no sense. >> a president obama spokesperson issued this statement. a cardinal rule of the obama administration was that no ...

>> well said. matthew rosenberg, thanks for your time. >> thank you. >> i'm joined by david cay johnson, author of "the making of donald trump," a man who has reported about the people at the center of the story we've been covering, the back channel, i talked to tim o'brien who had opportunity to chronicle him. what prompted in your mind when you sater involved in this back channel kremlin-friendly peace deal. >> that there's much more here than just smoke. one of the people sater was working with in this deal is right now, the "new york times" reports, under investigation for treason bauds he...

Talked to tim o'brien who had opportunity to chronicle him. what prompted in your mind when you sater involved in this back channel kremlin-friendly peace deal. >> that there's much more here than just smoke. one of the people sater was working with in this deal is right now, the "new york times" reports, under investigation for treason bauds he wants to replace the leader of the country with a putin puppet. so was donald trump wittingly or not helping vladimir putin recreate the old soviet empire in those areas with the majority of russian speaking people? and this shower looks like it.

Highly unblielikely as another national security advisor from the democratic base said. russia was a key issue in the campaign. hillary in the debates accused trump of being a putin puppet. this was a major flash pok. this is not a minorcountry. i can imagine the incoming national security advisor having a conversation with ambassador botswana, but these are five phone calls on the day that the sanctions were placed. hard for me to imagine that donald trump didn't know and approve, but maybe he didn't. we need to get to the bottom of it. what did the president know, and when did he know it? >>...

America's leaders are. if a democrat had said that. i mean, it's striking the kind of criticism they would get. >> let's listen to the moment where putin came up in the debate. ron, take a listen to this. >> i don't know putin. he said nice things about me, if we got along well, that would be good. if russia and the united states got along well and went after isis, that would be good. he has no respect for her. he has no respect for our president. and i'll tell you what, we are in very serious trouble. >> we missed the part where she had one of her lines, hard to know if it was practiced or sp...