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To "the new york times," the meeting was to discuss media strategy, not to overturn the election. the position jim jordan's spokesperson has take own behalf of jim jordan is he wasn't involved in a coup. why wouldn't he call liz or adam or chairman thompson and ask to go explain that, david jolly? >> well, you're exactly right. to daniel's point, there are privileges that exist with members of congress, much like the president of the united states is trying to exert executive privilege wrongly or not. just because you have that privilege or you suggest you might have that privilege doesn't mea...

But i think what it tells us and the importance of that is to convey that mr. meadows knows a lot and that you just, you shouldn't have to buy his book for $25 in order to hear what he has to say. he has an obligation to speak before the committee. if he has privilege he wants to exert, he can do that on a question by question basis, but he should be willing to answer questions, especially on the items that he voluntarily submitted to the committee himself. thousands of text messages, documents, emails and attachments, he should be willing to talk with us about those. the only reason he didn't...

>> a quick last word. i'm guessing there are zero people inside the department of just or attorney's office who want to be the stopgap after the public decides that a conspiracy is a-okay with them. that is not their function. my question is is the rock and the hard place if there's evidence of criminal activity, is ignoring it even worse? >> right. flip what david said on its head and do we want to be a country where we allow an authoritarian coup that luckily failed this time but may continue if it is not prevented in the future. it's a tough question. we don't want to seem like a banana rep...

Division over the acting attorney general. but the truth is absent -- absent a lens of criminal scrutiny, they're likely to, as dan and katie are suggesting, to defy subpoenas if they're subpoenaed by the committee and keep on keeping on. ? very complex cultural question almost that we have elevated a political party and some of their lead actors who can flaunt our very republican -- can get rewarded for that. is that a reflection on us as the american people? is that a reflection on the republican party at large, is that a reflection on the loudest voice, conservative television and radio mor...

Campaigning heavily on the election results. short on facts but long on conspiracy theories, not one governor there would say president joe biden freely won the 2020 election. >> did president biden win -- >> i don't know and we have to take that attitude towards 2020. i don't think there's any question that we got enough shenanigans. >> i don't think the election was fair. >> they decided they would change the rules, weaken what defenses we did have against voter integrity. >> you need a secretary of state who is actually interested in legal votes being counted. >> we believe there was voter ...