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Were lost forever and are looking at possible criminal charges. one of the conservative groups that was targeted by the irs, katherine is here with us today. some 32,000 e-mails, we don't know how many of them are new, but e-mails at one point under sworn testimony we were told by irs officials were gone for good, it appears they still exist. and apparently no one was looking for them, at least no one subjected to the subpoena. what do you make of everything we found out this week? >> it confirms what we've known all along. the irs is lying. and unless there is another game-changing event, my ...

Wasn't just her office it had to go through but the chief counsel. again to reiterate, the irs chief counsel is directly appointed by the president of the united states and this chief counsel, william wilkins, who directs all the lawyers at the irs, was chosen by president obama back in 2009. bill: so if he is called to testify? either he pleads or he answers some questions. >> right. bill: jordan, thank you. jordan sekulow trying to complete, round out what happened yesterday with the witness who is were there in that house hearing. jordan, thank you. back to martha in london with more. marth...

The irs investigation should be dropped all together. >> how dare anybody suggest we are at the end of this. this is the beginning of this. we have to make an example of it. we need to get to the bottom of it and i'm tired of this administration having to keep having these hearings. golden opportunity sales event to experience the precision handling of the lexus performance vehicles, including the gs and all-new is. ♪ this is the pursuit of perfection. ♪ man: the charcoal went out already? ... forget it. vo: there's more barbeque time in every bag of kingsford original charcoal. kingsford....

Democrats grilled inspector russell george for not flagging evidence that liberal groups were caught up tonight as well. he said there was no political consideration during the process. >> we never treated an ig office like this. if there were an allegations of personal wrongdoing that's one thiig. but to just try to suggest that an audit could have been done differently, you know, this is unprecedented, sir. this is unprecedented. >> reporter: george went on to say he didn't see some of the information from the irs until a week ago. he said he's disturbed it took the agency that long to produ...

Imagine the and they were aware of way was doing. >> when the spokesperson for the pft united states jay carney student before the american people and said quote irs line personnel had improperly targeted conservative groups, what is the accuracy of that statement? >> sir, i know the inference to any rogue agents is not correct. bill: where did this take you in the investigation? >> we have to untangle the lies and misdirections that came out of the white house, the former acting commissioner of the irs and get to the truth. we went out, our investigators did and found the person who wae agent...