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Willingy and tom buoy, but the moderates prevailed. they prevailed up until barry goldwater was able to secure a nomination and he got whomped. and ronald reagan came in as one of those insurgents but governed as a pragmatist. we're seeing a wing that is much more radical than what robert taft represented. and the business community has no place to go. but it's so difficult in our system for a third party to emerge or a party to splinter because it's not likely to me that the business community or there's no moderate wing really of the republican party left, the pragmatic conservatives will go...

Conservatives against the wall street moderates, it was wendell willingy and tom buoy, but the moderates prevailed. they prevailed up until barry goldwater was able to secure a nomination and he got whomped. and ronald reagan came in as one of those insurgents but governed as a pragmatist. we're seeing a wing that is much more radical than what robert taft represented. and the business community has no place to go. but it's so difficult in our system for a third party to emerge or a party to splinter because it's not likely to me that the business community or there's no moderate wing really o...

Re-establishing the tradition of nobody claims the debt ceiling as leverage, or do you think that anything that was -- >> we don't know exactly what's taking place, what will be in the senate agreement. but i can tell you one thing, the american people understand that the radical right wing republicans have held this country hostage, they created this shutdown, people need to go back to work, government services meet to be provided and we must pay our bills and we must not default on our debt. none of these issues should be negotiated. this is a given. we pay our bills and we keep the governme...

Re-establishing the tradition of nobody claims the debt ceiling as leverage, or do you think that anything that was -- >> we don't know exactly what's taking place, what will be in the senate agreement. but i can tell you one thing, the american people understand that the radical right wing republicans have held this country hostage, they created this shutdown, people need to go back to work, government services need to be provided and we must pay our bills and we must not default on our debt. none of these issues should be negotiated. this is a given. we pay our bills and we keep the governme...

And tea party populism can last. how the american constitutional system collided with the new politics of extremism. i guess i'll start with that point about what looks to me about the instability of today's republican coalition, with the business community on one hand and the tea party populace on the other. it's so striking to me how liberal the tea party populace same to care about what business is telling them. >> it's great to see you do history which is so rare on commercial television. i'll give you another analogy, you take it to the 1940s when robert taft led another insurgent wing, t...