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Of laws apply, federally and state. if you are talking about this radicalization process, we are into this, as been referred to, the free speech dilemma. and that is, where do you draw the line? and up until now, of course, the line has been drawn, almost to the point where you have to wait for the violence to happen or be clearly articulated in a pending planning phase. and somehow we've got to get law enforcement more partnered with social media. social media has to do much more to -- as been said, this guy's postings were on facebook. all of, this up until just -- well, faithful took it dow...

Radicalization process, whether it's a call and response between trump and the extremist groups. we heard about the reaction right now. we have data to defend that trump absolutely impacted response after he said to the proud boys, stand back and stand by. we now have the data to defend it. he impacted this. what are we doing about the social media threat that still continues? >> chuck, what do you think about that? the fact that a twitter employee was given anonymity. they felt like they were at risk for being a whistleblower but the former oath keepers did not. cassidy hutchinson did not. wh...

Happens all we learn about these things after the fact. >> well, i know this is going to sound very easy but the first thing i focus on as a law enforcement guy is why is a convicted balloon in possession of. again that is a big big red mark, and we need to figure out how he got a gun as a repeatedly convicted felon. , so he's likely in illegal possession of the gun. that's the easy part, the radicalization par year referring to is something that we as a society stock come to grips with. the role of social media is absolutely prominent in the radicalization process, whether you're talking abou...

Frank. >> yeah, there's two -- at least two really valuable things about this podcast. first, it's not special because it reflects a unique aberration in radicalization, rather, it's special because it typifies the radicalization process and i mean, not just with regards to right-wing violent ideology but rather, it is right in step with what i have seen in my career with regard to international terrorism and recruitments violent jihad. even to why teenagers join gangs, street gangs in cities. you've got the perfect combination. we had covid with people planted in front of their computer scree...

Gönül Tol is the founding director of the Middle East Institute’s Turkey program and a senior fellow for the Frontier Europe Initiative. She is also an adjunct professor at George Washington University’s Institute for Middle East Studies. After three years of field research in Germany and the Netherlands, she wrote her dissertation on the radicalization of the Turkish Islamist movement Milli Gorus in Western Europe.