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To include revenue. that's where we have the butting of heads. and what many analysts point out correctly what we are cutting now are important investments, not the drivers of debts and deficits in our country, and that's what we probably have to get back to in order to have a balanced solution. the problem right now is there really doesn't appear to be a great impetus for republicans to sit down at that table and talk about anything that includes revenue, even if it means summerly closing loopholes. the rate discussion is done. now we're talking about closing loopholes and they are not having...

They're not part of the sequester. so it's unclear why they would be part of the bargain. and it's not social security this would hit, it would hit veterans and spouses of soldiers who died in combat. so if that's the way congress thinks it ought to balance the budget, by cutting the pensions for widows of soldiers, that's where we are now. >> chris, i respectfully disagree with ryan here. yes, there's a lot of pessimism among reporters here, but at the end of the day, when you talk to staffers in democratic and republican circles, all sides want to extend middle class tax rates. that rate dis...