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They're cooperating with law enforcement? and so for cohen, a lot of that is collaboration -- corroboration. there has to be evidence that corroborates him every step of the way. it's hard to just take him on faith. it's i think very odd that he's stepped into these muddy waters. seems to have done it deliberately, talking about whether or not there were hards pardons and opened with credibility. and just have to be cautious and can't take him at face value. >> is it once a liar, always a liar situation, frank? >> it's not if you can independently krieb rate statements and put them in proper c...

Deliberately, talking about whether or not there were hards and oth pardons and opened with credibility. and just have to be cautious and can't take him at face value. >> is it once a liar, always a liar situation, frank? >> it's not if you can independently krieb rate statements and put them in proper context and get other people to support the statement. but who's telling the truth about who approached who first about the pardon, in my book it doesn't matter about the first approach, what matter is what the receptivity was and followup on the trump side. if indeed cohen made the first approa...