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Judgment, but we have seen many cases where dna has proven that the person who was sentenced to death was not in fact guilty. and it is something that frankly costs the taxpayers of this country a lot of money and is actually would be cheaper to let people spend their life and end their life in jail as opposed to that punishment of the death penalty. so on all of those issues, i will tell you that i am proud of my record. but i also do know there is a whole lot more work to be done in this country around criminal justice and reform of the system. we have a problem in this country of mass incar...

President obama has made criminal justice reform one of the hall marks of his second term. over the course of the past few months he has met with top-ranking law enforcement as well as inmates and corrections officers. tomorrow he will be in new jersey to continue his campaign for reform as he explained in his media address this week. joining the conversation now, director of communities united for police reform and the mayor of -- then also, the mayor of newark, new jersey -- i was like she's totally not the mayor -- who will be meeting with the president tomorrow and wes lowery, political re...

Point that the president is both talking about policing on one end, but then also criminal justice reform and even recidivism on the back end. gene, back to you for a quick second. part of what the president did back in chicago was also to make an argument that gun reform, reform about gun control, ought to be an argument that police should be out in front of. i'm wondering how you see even that policy as linked in to this broader conversation we're having? >> totally. what we see in new york and where there are zones of tension is because the police stepped in in the vacuum because you had gu...