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Effort. and that does affect the psychology of the people watching it. so i think the idea of returning to a deeper debate and putting issues out there that are uncomfortable for people are good. it would probably be helpful to step back from like news now you truth.org. that's not a real one. and retweeting this click bait. again, twitter has i did -- i did divolved 5,000 years of that and shoots out flotsam. >> there's been so much coverage of the trump factor here. the president's celebration of the show. has the media made too much of that piece of the "roseanne" success story? >> i think ...

It shows kind of that slippage. if you look at these attacks, brian, throughout, there's one common theme. that is you don't see an intelligent debate on ideas. you see attacks on people and on institutions. so we don't have an intelligent debate refuting russian collusion. we get attacks on the fbi and on bob mueller. we don't get a really serious gun control debate from folks like laura ingraham. we get attacks on kids' report cards. i think it's part of a strategy. you know, i recently did the transition from the fbi over to journalism. i was wondering why the transition was so seamless. it...