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So back with me now robert ray. michael zeldin laura coats and renato mar yat y. leonard orr, "the new york times" is record oh reporting that the order to fire mueller came in june. here is the president's friend chris ruddy at that time. >> i think he is considering perhaps terminating the special counsel. i think he is weighing that option. i think it's pretty clear by what one of his lawyers said on television recently. i personally think it would be a very significant mistake. >> um-hum. so the white house pushed back against this. but it seems many people new. it's no surprise that muell...

The fact that it didn't happen is the story. the story is not that he ordered it to happen. the story is that he -- he made a judgment not to fire him. >> renato go ahead. >> i have to say. i have to say -- i've got to say i'm surprised that lawyer is saying what was just said a moment ago. picknell, the fact that somebody something didn't succeed is completely irrelevant under criminal law. first of all. >> that has nothing to do with anything. yes that's -- it that's certainly true. but that doesn't turn that fact into the fact -- into a fact leading to obstruction of justice. >> well, actua...