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That's really the cause of these leaks. >> so it's what? it's to curry favor? it's to kind of show your faction in the best possible light or cast doubts on other factions? >> it's typically because people are jockeying. you need to do it my way. no, you need to do it my way. and because the process isn't smooth enough yet, the process is sound, i know i got a fair hearing, so i accept the result win or lose. that's what leads to no leaks. when you have a situation where people are jockeying for position and they are rival positions, and they feel like they're not given a fair listening to, th...

I forget the better argument. no, i have the better argument. and because the process isn't smooth enough yet, the process is sound, i know i got a fair hearing, so i accept the result win or lose. that's what leads to no leaks. when you have a situation where people are jockeying for their position and there are rival positions, and they feel like they're not given a fair listening to, that typically is what makes people go outside the system and leak to the press, because they're frustrated. >> jen, does that sound to you like a reasonable explanation of what's going on? this does seem to be...

Obamacare injects the insurance companies in the company. when it's more than obamacare when they think about it, it's the insurance companies. >> yeah, who loves the insurance companies? i don't know who does. i think this is -- this is a fascinating race because it's such a great test case and it's going to -- the result win or lose, whoever wins, if the results precinct by precinct is pores over by political pros on both sides to see how this obamacare message on both sides worked or didn't work, and it's going to be carried away from this to other races in the fall. so this is like a littl...