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>> rick, i'm just wondering, is russia just getting what it wanted out of this already? you know, the fact that lavrov is sitting in geneva with the united states secretary of state, that everyone is talking about this, how do you read it, rick? >> that's a good point. part of what i think putin always wants out of these things is attention, for russia to be with the big boys, for russia to be a super power, for us to pay attention to them. there's a long school of theory about russian diplomacy is that all they want to do is be recognized. i want to go back to a couple things richard said, al...

Different than france. france wants something different than england, and it's a difficult negotiation. antony blinken may be the world's best negotiator, so i think some of these things are a bit overblown. it's always going to be problematic, and, frankly, the more we talk about them, the more we're doing putin's business. all putin is trying to do is divide america from nato, and when we're talking about that, that starts to look like it's happening when, in fact, it may not be. >> rick, let's not forget that the history of russia and ukraine is not one where it's just been an exchange of w...

Euphemism. more people have died per square inch in ukraine than almost any other part of the whole world. ukraine has suffered at the hands of russia more than any other country in the world. and part of russian disinformation and russian propaganda is that somehow ukraine is threatening russia. that's like saying i'm threatening mike tyson. it isn't the case. >> richard engel, andrea mitchell, and rick sengle, thank you for being with me this morning. appreciate your time. still ahead, the house january 6th committee wants to talk to ivanka trump. what we know about the investigation, next...

Criticism from people like ann coulter, now calling donald trump a wimp. >> crazy that i expect a president to keep the promise he made every day for 18 months. >> you're finding out he's a lying conman what was your first clue >> okay, i'm very a very stupid girl fine. >> i didn't say it joining the table, msnbc political analyst rick sengle for public diplomacy and emily fox, senior reporter from "vanity fair." in this moment, it is half "seinfeld," half tragedy there are people serious harm was done to their housing, credit rating, security and donald trump got nothing. >> it's a silly prop...

Their mother agencies, they want to get out of there. >> it will be hard for them to recruit people. they're enquanlging or threatening witchhunts, we'll see if that continues when flynn is replaced. you also have a creeping irrelevance of the national security council as the parallel structures assert their authority. steve bannon's strategic initiatives group is something that is clearly filling the void, conducting reviews that traditionally get led by the national security adviser. to the transition of obama and trump we were told bannon would oversee all national security issue, placed ab...