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Story. >> well, rinalt, what is that old story? articulate it for us. >> well, it's for -- for us, it's always been confrontational. we've always had to raise our voices to be heard and to be seen. and every couple years, we have to do this. we have to be vocal, and say, it's not right. the percentages are too small. yes, there are gains, but not enough. when will it change? this is not post racial. we still have to work at being seen and heard. so we just have to coalesce and be vocal. >> all right. you know, i guess it's my job to ask this question, so let me do my job here. beverly, i heard...

Skin pigment and still have great features like that, it is sellable. when you come in with big eyes, big nose, big this, whatever -- big lips, things that are common traits in african-americans, it doesn't work. >> beverly, did you hear that? >> yes. and he sadly is misinformed. i feel that we, as african-americans, and african-american models and beauties have made a tremendous contribution to the fashion industry, with our large noses and thick lips and big butts. i think that we have also, you know, started so many trends in the industry, where these very same people have really benefited ...

Lips and hips. any truth to that? >> none that i know. and i think if you asked anyone that is certainly not the case. it's just very interesting. i think that, you know, we're still having these conversations. and i just have to go back into the '70s when i experience a lot of the same things that these young ladies are experienced -- experiencing today in the modeling world. and i do remember some of my colleagues, white colleagues, speaking up in my behalf, you know, saying, you know, why is beverly not getting the same pay as i'm getting? and i think maybe that's what needs to happen, is t...

And it is still tyson beckford. who is the top black male úúúú >> i don't really know of any one singular guy. i know that there are a few guys that are working that are doing major campaigns. so i would consider these guys working black american models. they just don't have a name. >> i have a name. rinalt white is my name -- is my top model. rinalt and i go way back, we modeled together, did testing together, ask he is still modeling and still fabulous and gorgeous. >> thank you, beverly, so much. >> that was terrific. to both of you, thanks for being here. great to see you, rinalt w...