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Lal there last week in which they would put forward a bill of the republican vergts and it had to do with catastrophic insurens and the first place it deal with this issue of the uninsured, right? and it was repealed at the last minute. >> hi ricing. >> right, right. which is a subsidized set of money for others that can't get coverage for preexisting conditions. people in favor said we support high risk pools so why shouldn't we support this element of the law. >> but they couldn't bring it to the floor. anything associate said toxic. is this is like polarity affect.

And so what you're asking with this penalty, you're slipping that logic. you're not having them be free riders but, rather, having everyone take action. >> what if you're a nonsmoker -- >> hold on. why should you have to foot the bill for someone who doesn't eat healthily? >> you don't. the first problem with what reinhan said is these are not risk pools. they don't care how sick you are or how well you are. there's no risk. they know exactly what it's going to cost them every year. there are no risk pools. so everyone is already paying their way. the second thing is, as a physician, i can tel...

Sick. they don't have some interest in being sick or unhealthy. that's the whole point. if the employer wants to help they should ask them, how can we help you and then they should guarantee that any help that they get and any records -- >> no one is claiming that people want people to be sick. rather, the idea is when can you make this intervention. if you are able to make the intervention earlier on, you're able to prevent a chronic condition from being exacerbated. i think the idea that there are no risk pools is a peculiar one. right now we're trying to become part of a shared risk pool. i...

Can have a fast record on the growth you need the loopholes to do that. we don't want to use those for spending and we want it to bring rates down. on the obama care thing, look. exchanges at the state level is something we have always been talking about. tom colburn and i had a bill. i think they have kind of messed up the idea of exchanges but the idea from conservative standpoint is a revived idea that can work. the other thing is high risk pools. they screwed the high risk pools and didn't work in obama care but a way of making them work from our minds to make sure that people with preexis...

Boss tip o'neill to save social security. he could do a deal with my boss ted kennedy to pass immigration reform. people would grumble on the right but they were with reagan. the romney people act like they're scared of their shadows. if he says anything off the playbook they immediately retreat. >> how do you provide all the good things, the benefits in obama care, they don't mind that word anymore, like covering people with pre-existing conditions, having your adult kids in their 20s covered which all costs money, without having an individual mandate. >> republicans have all stated continuou...