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I can see it on major pieces of legislation like health care. it changes history. even civil rights. i can understand that. if you do it every time like cabinet appointments, who's secretary of commerce or something, you're allowing the fact this country is ever going to have anything more than roughly a 50/50 split. it's always going be around 52 senators, never going to be 62 again. your thought on that, too. i mean, if we're never going to have a thin majority of either party controlling either house you're creating a road block system in the fact if you demand 60 votes. >> it's an entirely...

Have a thin majority of either party controlling either house you're creating a road block system in the fact if you demand 60 votes. >> it's an entirely different conversation when you're talking legislation and nominees as you pointed out. nominees, most of them, all cabinet nominees are temporary. legislation is permanent. and a lot of democrats, many of them aren't really saying so publicly but a lot privately have concerns when republicans get to power r they might do things like try to cut abortion rights with a majority vote. there are a lot of concerns about that. which is why you don'...

That, raising the volume if he thought harry reid were bluffing. >> my problem with both of you guys, i think the problem with the 60 vote thing is this. i can see it on major piece of legislation like health care, because it changes history, or even civil rights. i understand that. but if you do it every time, like cabinet appointments, you're basically allowing the fact that this country is never going to have anything more than a roughly 50/50 split. it's always going to be around 55 senators. it's never going to be 62 again. you know what i mean? your thought on that, too. if we never have...