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That's one of the reasons why people have said that this case is actually going to take us back ten years, because what's happened is that the polarization and vitriol has been on overdrive because the decisions or at least the people who are promoting the decision seem to say that for kids to win, teachers have to lose and that's not the case. what we need -- i'm sorry. >> one of the things i want to just make clear here is when we are defining effectiveness or ineffectiveness, sort of what the measures are that are being used, because the language of grossly ineffective teacher makes us all ...

Evidence doesn't mean a hill of beans because you have manipulated so much so that the visual images that really can ascribe guilt to one particular person have been erased, all bets are off. >> let me come into the sexual identity question. simultaneously, this whole thing about race, this also seemed to be a case about someone who had domestically -- let me take out the domestic. that's not really relevant. who had abused his wife, that 911 call, the fear, the sound in her voice, there was this kind of astonishing aspect to which women of color, particularly black women, became part of the o...

My testing question. >> i want to respond to that. basically, what we're talking about is it's not the case that all school districts know who the grossly ineffective teachers are, at least in california, because you only have 16 months under that statute to try to make a decision about whether or not somebody can achieve learning gains. that's highly problematic. as the court found, it basically results in a quality-blind determination that by default, has grossly ineffective teachers in classrooms and disparately in black and brown and low income communities. >> i'm just asking, i just reall...

Decision. 78% of black people polled agreed with the jury's decision while only 42% of white respondents were in agreement. race became the story of this trial. in the break, you said to me that mr. simpson's current incarceration you think is still connected to a set of beliefs about his guilt. >> no question about it. i covered his road rage trial in the fall of 2001. nobody was there. it was right after 9/11. but he took the stand and i got to know o.j. then. i covered his las vegas robbery kidnapping case in 2008, also got to know him a little bit just talking to him in the halls there. ki...

Of what is interesting about this story to me or about this issue to me is that it doesn't fall neatly along partisan lines, it doesn't fall neatly along an ideological spectrum. there's a really serious set of questions of people of good will on both sides who want good educational outcomes but when i listen to mr. mcrae, i have almost a visceral reaction to the repetition of the language of grossly ineffective teachers as the primary cause for the educational inequalities. again, i think everybody in this case recognizes it exists. so make the claim for me about why you think there's another...