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Real disincentive for a company to expand. it's a great cost they have to bear and frankly it's going to be passed on to our consumers and hurt our entire economy. >> tom, your reaction to that because you look at this from a different perspective and how people can benefit from the aca as a cost production measure. >> yeah. don't get me wrong, i'm not a big fan of the aca but marilyn tavenner is an old friend and a great person and she's having a rough day today. she's very talented, very good. i know the congressman as well. i'm not a big fan of the aca. i'm in the health care business. it's...

Secretary. joining me live is republican congressman robert pitten jer. he's been calling it a national disaster of the also joining us, tom scully who served as cms administrator under president george w. bush. he's a republican working who's been promoting the health care law, and seies it as a potentia gold mine that could make some people very rich. congressman, you were not in favor of the government shutdown over the aca or defunding the law. why do you see the health care now as such a disaster or what do you see that can be done to enhance it to make it work properly? >> well, thanks, ...