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Which is there are 14 ongoing matters that were referred by special counsel mueller to other jurisdictions. i think 11 of them were completely redacted within the mueller report. and so there might be all kinds of other wrongdoing that is being investigated currently. >> right. >> that we have no knowledge of. we don't know the subject matter nor do we know the targets. this is very important. and from an oversight standpoint, we must know what those matters are about. one other issue which is the subject of great inquiry around here is the counterintelligence information contained within the ...

That none of us have answers on, which is there are 14 ongoing matters that were referred by special counsel mueller to other jurisdictions. i think 11 of them were completely redacted within the mueller report. and so there might be all kinds of other wrongdoing that is being investigated currently. >> right. >> that we have no knowledge of. we don't know the subject matter nor do we know the targets. this is very important. and from an oversight standpoint, we must know what those matters are about. one other issue which is the subject of great inquiry around here is the counterintelligence ...

Congress. how big a deal is that? >> if that's true, that's a big deal. obviously, you know, mr. sekulow is a lawyer himself, and he has certain ethical constraints that he would obviously have violated if he counseled someone else to lie. but on top of that, he would potentially be suborning perjury and that's very serious. >> do you feel like you understand the entirety of the facts before us? and i ask this because you just mentioned a whole bunch of things the caucus is unified about not letting them obscure, obstruct, deny things. just the public facts as they already exist in daylight, d...

Credibility standpoint. >> yeah. i mean especially from a narrative perspective. chuck is right, of course, we do know this stuff. and in fact the white house opinion acknowledges that it's waived the actual material in the mueller report as opposed to other material, but there's just no substitute in the last few weeks and the apparent sort of shrugging shoulders shows it of having the guy in the lights actually saying those words. that's what the democrats so dearly wanting and what the white house so crucially opposes. >> chuck rosenberg and harry litman, thank you both. check out chuck's n...

Cohen, that cohen says that jay sekulow told him to lie before congress. how big a deal is that? >> if that's true, that's a big deal. obviously, you know, mr. sekulow is a lawyer himself, and he has certain ethical constraints that he would obviously have violated if he counseled someone else to lie. but on top of that, he would potentially be suborning perjury and that's very serious. >> do you feel like you understand the entirety of the facts before us? and i ask this because you just mentioned a whole bunch of things the caucus is unified about not letting them obscure, obstruct, deny thi...