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Change the rules, so he's making this exception. senator warren is right, there's no principled reason why if you're going to make an exception here you couldn't make it on other things, such as voting rights. hopefully -- it's a weird thing that's happening but hopefully this is at least a modest step forward towards rules reform. it is things like this, it's the small steps, it's things like senator cotton just driving senators crazy that sort of build momentum for reform. that's the way that it's happened in the past. and hopefully they're inching towards that outcome now. >> thank you very...

They want to bring back a talking filibuster, by that put the onus on the opposition, those doing the filibuster to show up, get to the floor, sustain their filibuster as opposed to the majority to break it. but they're not in favor of a carve out in the sense we get from reporting, they see it as sort of a slippery slope in terms of rules reform. create a carve out for election, voting rights, another constituency, immigration advocates will say we should have a carve out for our interests, too, and then you get towards removing the filibuster which is something that joe biden has said he doe...

Realm of possibility. but i think what you're going to end up seeing is what is going to get 51 votes. because at this point i think everyone's on board there's got to be some changes. so my sense is that something is going to pass. now, at this point they're also talking about passing it with 2/3 and having it be a bipartisan deal and the democrats and republicans come together and say this is the wire going to do it and if that doesn't work then they go the constitutional option and they get that majority. i think something is going to pass in terms of rules reform. the question is, it's lik...

>> i don't know. i don't know if thin knows, to be honest. i don't know if there's a hard vote tally. i know the people that are engineering this want to keep this very secret until they think they have the votes. i don't think they have them now. i think that's what that means. i don't think it's outside the realm of possibility. but i think what you're going to end up seeing is what is going to get 51 votes. because at this point i think everyone's on board there's got to be some changes. so my sense is that something is going to pass. now, at this point they're also talking about passing it...

To be some changes. so my sense is that something is going to pass. now, at this point they're also talking about passing it with 2/3 and having it be a bipartisan deal and the democrats and republicans come together and say this is the wire going to do it and if that doesn't work then they go the constitutional option and they get that majority. i think something is going to pass in terms of rules reform. the question is, it's like the same story with the public option and financial reform, what compromises are going to have to be made at the margins to get the 51st vote. >> do we need to put...