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Annexed crimea. seven years later, post-2014, russia still controls this part of the country, calls it part of russia, even though the u.s. and the rest of the world's view, this is part of a sovereign nation of ukraine. russia is occupying a whole portion of the eastern part of ukraine. the sanctions applied for seven years since then has not changed the calculus on the ground at all. so the question is, what can the u.s. do to raise the economic price, the targets appear to be putin's financial assets and the assets of people close to putin. the big questions, john, are does the u.s. take an...

Direction, proof is something separate, but if we get to that proof, how do you hold them accountable? what is a realistic way to do so? >> sure, that is a great question. there are several ways to do it. first of all we have some bills by tom cotton and marsha blackburn that would strip china of their sovereign immunity. we've seen attorney generals around the united states try to sue china. i think that those are worthy. we should consider to pursue both options. the problem they rely on international courts and that is always going to be difficult to hold china accountable in the internatio...

Have an adventurous foreign policy in places like yemen and in the gulf and syria. and so they have been trying to reorient the strategy. that is to say iran has to normalize its behavior. so we're not just talking about its nuclear program, we're talking about its missile program, its support to terrorist groups, its human rights violations, all the things that it's doing as a disruptive force in the middle east and beyond. and so that's the frame of reference for the trump administration. that's where the pressure comes from the sanctions perspective. and this is to be anticipated. the irani...

Specifically of zte with the president? >> i did. we spoke about it may be two months ago. we just have a difference of opinion, with is normal and life and in american politics. he viewed it as, you know, one way, and kind of focused on it from a sanctions perspective. and he pointed to the fact that, you know, the previous administration did nothing about zte sanctions violations and he did. and he's right about that. and i tried to explain it as it's more than just sanctions. we have a different view on it. and that happens. but that's different from the broader approach to china, which i g...

Level, they would probably impose something like the territorial-based sanctions we've seen on iran in which case there is no exception to the sanctions. you look at the country, the entire country is sanctioned, not just the government and certain individuals or institutions within it. that's the direction i would expect the trump administration to take. it would align the approach we use on north korea from a sanctions perspective. with the approach we've used on iran. we treat north korea the same way we treat syria and the trump administration will step that up. >> julie: the move mostly s...