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More than $15 an hour. joining us now from washington is the author of that study, michael tanner. michael, welcome, it's good to have you on. i read your article. i was quite frankly not shocked in some respects, a little interested on the other hand. wondering, you know, how do we get out of this quite of quick sand mess we are in when it comes it to people who legitimately need some help but also incentivizing them to go out and get jobs. >> the big problem is simply that the welfare state has grown so big that there is very little accountability. most people when they think of welfare thin...

More than $15 an hour. joining us now from washington is the author of that study, michael tanner. michael, welcome, it's good to have you on. i read your article. i was quite frankly not shocked in some respects, a little interested on the other hand. wondering, you know, how do we get out of this quite of quick sand mess we are in when it comes it to people who legitimately need some help but also incentivizing them to go out and get jobs. >> the big problem is simply that the welfare state has grown so big that there is very little accountability. most people when they think of welfare thin...