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Aren't they? >> it does seem that the president thinks that the walls may be closing in on him. we've thought that a few times before but it just feels more that way. and i do think the fact that bob mueller seems to think that he has proof that manafort didn't cooperate, i.e. lied, which means he must have evidence that these things were lies, as i understand it you can't just say we're abrogating the deal we made just because i don't like the way he's behaving, you have to really show that he lied. and if trump has some sense that mueller knows that manafort lied about things related to trum...

It is called "everything trump touches dies." welcome to you both, gentlemen. mr. kristol, i'll start with you. presidential panic isn't pretty. that's what i read you said on social media today in light of that piece of artwork. these are new times we're in, aren't they? >> it does seem that the president thinks that the walls may be closing in on him. we've thought that a few times before but it just feels more that way. and i do think the fact that bob mueller seems to think that he has proof that manafort didn't cooperate, i.e. lied, which means he must have evidence that these things were...

These things were lies, as i understand it you can't just say we're abrogating the deal we made just because i don't like the way he's behaving, you have to really show that he lied. and if trump has some sense that mueller knows that manafort lied about things related to trump and that trump may have lied about those things, then we're at a whole different level. >> and can you believe we're playing this kind of -- >> no. >> this is screenplay stuff. >> we were talking about this in the break for a minute. i'm just amazed by the joint defense agreement which we're all talking about and lawyer...