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Overand over again, they have exculpatory events only to have new information contradicting the initial account. and till insist there is a new perfectly innocent explanation. just last night, the atlantic broke the story that donald trump jr. was secretly corresponding with wikileaks in the run up to the election, refuting the strong denial by then vice president alcandidate mike pence that they were in cahoots. it's the same pattern we saw can don jr.'s shifting stories on his meeting with the russian lawyer at trump tower, with carter page's meeting with government officials during his summ...

Relaid to us just base on the what they have been asked for mueller. but it is significant in terms of how close this comes to the president. >> and also, this crosses the redline that the president intimated. he thinks that mueller should not cross. >> it's also the issue with the security clearance forms, right? i mean, that is now perhaps something that mueller's team wants to look at too. while his attorneys have said, it was their mistakes or he omitted stuff. there's still a question of why, really. >> reporter: -- -- meetings with russian officials. mueller's team when they released pap...

There are all these emoluments and ethics issues that are arising. >> but could it be something as simple as they're just embarrassed about being drifters or they were just going there to get as much money as they could out of russia and not be collusion? >> it could be. it could be. i think as the campaign moved forward and they thought they could possibly win, they were looking for that decisive thing, what we used to call the october surprise. >> right. >> and i think their october surprise was hillary's e-mails. and so, i think they really ramped up their efforts to get this information, w...

Looking for that decisive thing, what we used to call the october surprise. >> right. >> and i think their october surprise was hillary's e-mails. and so, i think they really ramped up their efforts to get this information, whether it be through papadopoulos or don junior in june. they were driving toward that information. >> let's talk about that, then. let's talk about some sort of connection to russia and all the people. you mentioned two of them. jared kushner failed to report multiple russian contacts on security clearance forms. donald trump jr. met with russians at trump tower and gave ...

Advisor. so if criminal charges are brought against either of those men, that is a political earthquake, alex. >> what about the likely range of charges that could be filed based on your reporting around the grand jury hearings. what do you think it's going to be? and again, i know this is just speculation. >> we know that this investigation is about whether americans colluded with the russian effort to interfere in the presidential campaign, but we also know there's no statute prohibiting collusion with a foreign power. so a lot of other potential crimes have been examined here, ranging from ...