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Share, today, has responded by saying that they will be keeping an eye on the situation —— russia today has responded. so there is that aspect to this. but in some senses it is almost like a psychological shift in finland, whereby nato membership is seen now to be giving finland a level of security that it feels it should possibly have, the ironclad security guarantee that was mentioned by yen stoltenberg is part of this also and it seems to be a great sense of relief amongst the nato leadership that nato membership is done and dusted deal. the deeper question is, this is the early stages....

Security guarantees from nato, perhaps e.u. membership and in return it accepts the reality that it is not getting crimea back, it is perhaps not getting some parts of the donbas back? >> there will be no decisions without the ukrainians. we will not take decisions instead of them. we support them. >> but should they -- would you encourage them to take -- >> we told them that they could go for membership in the european union and they are very -- they working to -- to make progress and all of the criteria that are important for this. i think they know that we will -- that we are ready to organ...

It is not getting some parts of the donbas back? >> there will be no decisions without the ukrainians. we will not take decisions instead of them. we support them. >> should they -- would you encourage them to take these? >> we told them that they can go for membership in the european union and they are working to -- to -- to make progress in all of the criteria that are important for this. i think they know that we will -- that we are ready to organize a certain way of security guarantee for the country in times of peace to come, but we are not there yet, and to my view, it is necessary that ...

This in the early days thinking it could be under the u.n., nato, any auspices. doing so, it enters into the scenario nato has been trying to avoid which is being the opposing force directly to the russians. if nato is signing a security guarantee, it's short of article 5, if what happens -- if the russians launch a missile or something goes wrong, that puts them in direct conflict with each other. suddenly, there are security guarantees that have to be honored and fulfilled. then they are in a direct war. >> tony blinken keeps saying a durable peace. >> the biden administration has been reluc...

Probably the pace of the hot war will slow, but nonetheless, to build these kind of defensive capabilities, we're going to have to increase military spending. particularly, europeans have to increase military spending. lots of european countries not near the 2% gdp nato target. in europe, there are too many people who hide behind the broad sense of, yes, ukraine must win, but don't grapple with what that really means in terms of more military spending, sustained support. ukraine probably in nato, at least a security guarantee, and then in the european union. that's what we're arguing for. we'r...