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Back. but it is really now about going forward. and i think that the key issue here is that regardless of ukraine's asession to the eu, there is a need for some kind of security guarantee that has been to be crafted. and i think we're going to be less worried about what russia might do, noting that they still do have the largest nuclear arsenal in the world, but of course there is much less concern about them now. now that also, we have to be a little careful not to be short-sighted and remember some lessons of history about the end of world war 1 and the conditions and so forth. but again, we...

Which is defending nato countries. what nato has done very impressively and effectively is move additional forces into the three baltic states, into eastern poland and parts of the other countries that have borders with ukraine. and they've done that very impressively. but they're mission is not to defend ukraine, that is a by lateral mission between the different countries that have been undertaking the efforts to support ukraine. in that regard, i think nato as a whole resolve to do this and then individual countries are the ones that carry that out. nato is not set up to be a security assis...

Long-term backlash, abby. the short-term one, is it's going to take eight months to a year to get both finland and sweden into nato to go through the whole ratification process. during that time, they are not covered by the nato treaty, which is an attack on one is an attack on all. so they're going to need, and they're beginning to get from britain and from the u.s., security guarantees about who would come to their defense if putin did something to them, even short of a full scale attack. and then there's the long-term concern. >> that security guarantee is at the heart of it all. is the uni...

Russian advance and clint was talking about how that might be happening in the next few weeks. well once you've achieved that, what do you do then? well we're going to strengthen with nato and bringing finland and sweden into nato, bringing all of northern europe into nato, expanding nato to russia's border because of what vladimir putin has done. the next logic is to say, what is the other big country in the middle of europe that is not part of nato yet being threatened by russia, well that country happened to be ukraine. it was invade. once the war is over or the fighting has stopped, giving...

To think much more creatively about european security architectures and western security architectures that do not simply expand nato ever further to the russian border, which honestly, it's not at all clear that nato will accept, that the american people will accept, but more importantly you can have the united states, canada, germany, britain, with a guarantee, a security guarantee for finland and sweden, really the north, you can think about a security architecture that works but then allows, again, over the course of decades for a far more flexible set of european security architectures th...