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Trump campaign included with russians to help him win the election. everything we are talking about here is post election. so what you have to assume, and it is a big assumption in my mind is that there was some quid pro quo that happened before the election that resulted in after the election. as far as we see we have no evidence of that. >> i'll just say that the reason bob mueller was appointed special investigator was to determine whether there was an obstruction of justice. whether donald trump tried to prevent an analysis by the fbi into looking into this issue. that is a post election p...

Tell if we're starting to get paranoid or it is justified. and then it seems like the paranoia is the part of the interference. >> the russians don't even have done anything to keep the paranoia going. 2018, we're of course going to wonder when the elections come out if the numbers are real. there will be a real fear that your vote doesn't come out. >> not only fear about that. the times article highlighted, systems break down all the time. i've worked around elections for most of my adult life. and this election problem here. now you have this doubt in the back of your mind. >> that's right. ...

>> not that there's anything wrong with bulgaria, but they may outsource to it a bulgarian firm. you don't know. >> part of what is so frustrating about this entire, through the looking glass moment, it seems like i can't tell if we're starting to get paranoid or it is justified. and then it seems like the paranoia is the part of the interference. >> the russians don't even have done anything to keep the paranoia going. 2018, we're of course going to wonder when the elections come out if the numbers are real. there will be a real fear that your vote doesn't come out. >> not only fear about tha...

He's ready to roll? >> you know, i don't want to overestimate putin's ability to psychologically manipulate somebody. he thinks highly of this ability. it's quite basic. bringing a dog to a meeting is pretty crude tactics. i expect he will certainly try to sort of demonstrate his dominance to trump. i think he's going to lord the russian meddling issue over trump because in this situation basical basically putin has the upper hand. trump does not want the russian meddling in elections to be mentioned and putin can lord it over him. it's almost a blackmail possibility. other than that, they hav...

He apologized and maybe he should pick up those coins. evidently he faces a hefty fine. >> shannon: well, a proposal from texas senator ted cruz could breathe new life into republican efforts to reform healthcare. here's the idea. allow health insurers to sell plans up to the obamacare regulations to also sell cheaper less comprehensive plans at the same time. it's an idea that's getting traction among conservatives. joining me to talk about it, deputy editor for "the wall street journal." good to see you today. so we know this has a lot of interest from conservatives who say there was a simil...