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You're the biographer here. does this line up to the trump you know and is this typical to people who are close to the president's orbit, they get pulled in? >> i think they do, but you also bring your own lens to this experience. and i think that a lot of people drawn to donald trump want to be pulled. when i met him, i thought that he was an incredibly shabby figure. he actually made trump tower look worse to me than it looked walking in, because, you know, his -- he deny seem to have the grasp of any facts. he didn't have life experience. he wasn't interested in art, food, literature. he wa...

People who are close to the president's orbit, they get pulled in? >> i think they do, but you also bring your own lens to this experience. and i think that a lot of people drawn to donald trump want to be pulled. when i met him, i thought that he was an incredibly shabby figure. he actually made trump tower look worse to me than it looked walking in, because, you know, his -- he deny seem to have the grasp of any facts. he didn't have life experience. he wasn't interested in art, food, literature. he was only interested in himself. and i think one of the things that disappointed me about the ...

Was struck by your peace. i don't think, i know i never read a piece about the center of this. i don't know what your politics are and i won't ask you. you described this as a religious community almost. >> there a really strong faith-based component. you become absolutely sure that you are right. and nothing is going to sway you from it. you set your course and you figured it out. >> tucker: it doesn't seem from your description like there were a lot of other inputs coming in the cell. like it was self-referential. you talk only to people you are in it with. what are the things that you vince...

I don't think, i know i never read a piece about the center of this. i don't know what your politics are and i won't ask you. you described this as a religious community almost. >> there a really strong faith-based component. you become absolutely sure that you are right. and nothing is going to sway you from it. you set your course and you figured it out. >> tucker: it doesn't seem from your description like there were a lot of other inputs coming in the cell. like it was self-referential. you talk only to people you are in it with. what are the things that you vinceed yourself of or -- convi...

What really needs to happen -- spew welcome the present just say i want to go back to the 80s? where the economy was roaring and we were doing great. couldn't that be what he is saying? >> either way it is self referential. jesse: not we can go back when everything was great? >> i think it's a patriarchy that no one questions. jesse: is he saying there was a patriarchy that no one questioned? >> i think there isn't any debate anymore whether it is real. i think even the disbelievers now believers. jesse: when you think donald trump says make america great again, he wants to go back to the time...