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President trump and national security advisor flynn desire to engage russia politically. >> jenna: what does turning up the temperature look like? >> that means more support for the ukrainian forces, both in terms of training. but i also support senator mccain's call for the sale of lethal weaponry to the ukrainian government to improve the quality of material that they are bringing to the fight. look, at the end of the day, a show of support, even the symbolic one from nato that endorses ukrainian sovereignty and respects their territorial integrity, even if it's just a visit, or even if it's...

Part of ukraine, because they are still there with these russian-backed rebels. so how do we make our policy more impactful, and what is the goal of our policy as you see it? >> well, it's not clear what the goal of the policy is yet because the trump administration, like the obama administration before it, seems to be starting from the notion that we can somehow negotiate our way out of this. i personally have been arguing since the war started in ukraine in march, 2014, that the united states and nato needed to put conventional deterrence on the table. and we've done that in some ways with u...