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it's a heartbreak to know that he's gone at 75. >> talk to me a little bit about, you know, the barriers he broke, the doors he opened. do you think had it not been for "soul train," had it not been for don cornelius, stevie wonder, do you think you would be where you are today? >> well, obviously, he was a major contribute toor to allowi that to happen. i think definitely the visual presence of a lot of the different artists he made happen because the doors to get in like that were kind of crazy. but it opened up such a whole other kind of era of music and dance. he found the latest...

Until this point. >> but kansas is a really interesting test case. thomas franks spoke, what's the matter with kansas? for decades we saw whites voting against their economic interest. so, is there going to be a shift now? >> yes, no -- i mean, you know, there's a shift happening in this country. you know, we have been a country where people vote based on their aspiration, not on their situation. the situation is so thick right now, folks are starting to question that. see, maybe -- maybe my kids would be better off if i voted based on my situation. you know, as we were talking about on one of...

He has been unequivocal that he's not going to change his mind even on the issue of voting rights. that leaves biden very few tools to use to actually pass this legislation. you are seeing his administration is trying to do as much as they can. but on capitol hill, i don't see that shift happening. >> to follow up, isn't it that clyburn believes that manchin can be coerced into getting rid of -- create a carveout for the filibuster, that people like sinema and others will follow along? >> certainly, that's the hope. right? if you could convince manchin, perhaps you convince someone like sinema...

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