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It would be interesting to know what the justice department thinks or the fbi thinks could be used against michael flynn. there's been a lot of talk about loyalty and how donald trump is loyal to his people, there's no question about it, you can probably sense he has strong loyalty to general flynn. there is another bit of loyalty he owes and that's to his vice president. someone who has done a great job of defending him and standing by his side, at that point donald trump has to wonder where does his loyalty lie? >> what does the president need to do to show leadership in this situation? he w...

Jessica. >> you guys made it really sticks. >> tom: shouldn't he get over him saw a little bit? >> i think he's so fabulous. >> tom: jake tapper was over there saying the same thing. >> did you see jake tapper with kellyanne conway, he didn't look like little jake tapper them. >> tom: he was talking about his feelings then. >> don't be against men expressing themselves, i think it's fantastic. >> tom: what to do about it, jessica? >> i think both sides, this is some thing i thought about a lot, something i focused on in graduate school, trust in the media and government and institutions, this ...

That's again part of the process. if you run for public office that is something that could happen and they should have thought about it. >> and this white house should be figuring out what messages they want. what they're having to deal with is donald trump, one, family doesn't have clear boundaries around conflicts of interest. he is completely mixing policy-making with deal making. and secondarily they personalize everything and have sean spicer propagandizing today. >> shouldn't be talking about her businesses at all. >> well, supposedly she moved away from these businesses. they said she ...

Exchanges and engagements he's had in trying to be that tough negotiator, it's not clear the same skills will work to his benefit in the white house. >> even in the presentation of that question, we're presenting the president is naïve person, new, shouldn't he have known? if you're going to run for president of the united states, shouldn't you know you have to answer to the american people? no longer ceo of your own country but work for the american people and have to do things that go with that job? >> but i think the fascinating thing in the 20 days of the trump presidency, he is not chang...

>> kimberly: i can relate to that kind of torture, bob. >> bob: are we going to make the announcement? let me ask you. you have the secretary of defense and you have the cia, new director of the cia, both being caught off guard by this as well. >> kimberly: what did he say? he said he's going to defer to them. he's going to live listen to mattis and pompeo. he gave his opinion. it's accurate. we've used it. it has spend successful. ask khalid sheikh mohammed. >> bob: they have a little bit of a message problem in terms of getting the people responsible, making laws or implementing policy. shou...