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To get good fiscal policy. >> and the grenades are fired back and forth between the republicans and the democrats. and in the meantime the business community is just sort of sitting there saying what are you going to do? we don't know what to do. we don't know if taxes are going up or down and we don't even know how to run our businesses. they are all put on the sideline waiting, at least they have been since last november, waiting for an answer, are they going up or down. and it's stifled the economy by the fact there's been inactivity here. >> right. and i think that's the problem. you have ...

Because lack of sales is making small business unworthy of cred credit. also with us todd mccracken president of the national small business association. great to see both of you. >> great to be here. >> bill, i want to start with you because there has been this debate going on in washington whether to pass this $30 billion lending program. i'm assuming you think there is no need for it. you say the banks already have the money. >> i think they do. i'm the chairman of the board of a small bank that services small businesses in new jersey and we just want some good applicants to come in the doo...