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All the people they were ruling over were brown. and there were all these weird ideas to do with racial science that were emerging, and it turned into a proudly white supremacist exercise. but that was pretty much in the 19th century. it wasn't for the whole history. right. but, you know, there are a lot of people watching this around britain who will be finding that language hard to stomach. yeah, i think there's an amnesia about that. i think because we beat the evil, racist germans in world war ii and we abolished slavery, there's an idea that we are beyond racism in this country. but i thi...

And that is a pretty neutral thing. education is important here, so i want to go into a little bit of detail about what you learned and how you learnt it, because as you say, you were from a deprived part of wolverhampton in the west midlands and yet you were academically gifted and successful so you went to a predominantly white grammar school in a very different neighbourhood. and you say that that school, it had a huge impact on you. i think one phrase you've used is that it sort of "cleansed your mind", and not necessarily in an altogether positive way. what did it do to you? well, i guess...

In your views now about how we need to use very specific language about, for example, the british empire. you call it "a wilful, unapologetic exercise in white racial supremacy. britain was dehumanising black people on a super—industrial scale." but i also say empire didn't start out as that. it didn't start out as a wilfully racist thing. it happened in the 19th century when britain suddenly found itself ruling a quarter of the planet and noticed that they were white and almost all the people they were ruling over were brown. and there were all these weird ideas to do with racial science th...

In the west midlands and yet you were academically gifted and successful so you went to a predominantly white grammar school in a very different neighbourhood. and you say that that school, it had a huge impact on you. i think one phrase you've used is that it sort of "cleansed your mind", and not necessarily in an altogether positive way. what did it do to you? well, i guess it got me where i wanted to go, which is intojournalism and into the establishment. there's no way i would have got a job on the financial times if i hadn't gone to cambridge university. but at the same time, i think i lo...

Wanting to delete things out of the curriculum. but i think you can continue to teach things like the world wars and so on and just include black history and brown history. i suppose the question then is what sathnam sanghera would teach, because i look at your writings, including empire land, but yourjournalism as well, and you are very trenchant in your views now about how we need to use very specific language about, for example, the british empire. you call it "a wilful, unapologetic exercise in white racial supremacy. britain was dehumanising black people on a super—industrial scale." bu...