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That's not actual the conversation. i certainly understand why senator sanders and his campaign wants to make it about that. but what the real conversation is, where is senator sanders' health care plan? and how does he -- why is it that he has promised that he would put it out before iowa caucus goers go out and caucus. now he said that just as of last night. today they start to walk that back and say they're not going to put their plan out. i think that's not a conversation they want to have. so they're trying to look backwards. but my read on that photo is, it kind of makes our point. this ...

Middle class americans should have a tax increase. so it's for the sanders campaign to either say, no that's not the plan i'm going to introduce, sore to say, here's the plan i'm going to introduce, and here's how i would pay for it. i think the point that chelsea was making and the point that we're making, what is your plan, and how will you pay for it? and will you let voters in iowa know the answer to that question before they go to caucus? >> let me go to the issue of guns. secretary clinton seemed to imply that bernie sanders was very friendly with the nra. what's your evidence that he is...

Rationale for why gun manufacturers should be held liable? >> when we're talking about guns and the ammunition that people use and certainly how people get those guns, what we know about what people do with those guns, there's an element of liability, i think, that we should hold and a number of cases where in some of these mass shootings, you've seen parents and family members try to raise those issues and be shut down without even having their case really heard. >> karen finney, spokesperson, senior adviser on the clinton campaign, thanks for coming on. turning now to the sanders campaign,...

Because the deductible is so high. >> i've heard various ways to sell health care. politically, it never works. you do know that? when they see taxes over premiums and republicans exploit that like crazy. >> i get that. that's the republican talking points. this is the democratic primary. that's talk about that. in this case, if you look at social security, medicare, two of the most popular programs, no one wants to touch them. those are funded by payroll taxes paid for by everybody. those are not unpopular programs. those are popular programs. >> and you want to move the health care to a payr...

People that i deal with, that i talk to, they say this is what's happening, because our leaders are stupid, our politicians are stupid, and the mexican government is much smarter, much sharper, much more cunning and they send the bad ones over because they don't want to pay for them, they don't want to take care of them, why should they when the stupid leaders of the united states will do it for them. and that's what's happening, whether you like it or not. >> i want to win. i want one of these people here or the ones at 5:00 to be the next president of the united states. we're not going to wi...