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Happening. and so, yes, it's -- he must have known about that. and yet nevertheless continued to say no, it's a hoax. >> i wander if for the indictments this really gave mcmaster cover to say out loud yes, because the rest of the intel community has been saying this for a long time that russia was meddling. >> would have been embarrassing otherwise, right? >> i would think. so far the president has yet to even punish russia for any kind of penalty for this kind of meddling, even show an interest in getting to the bottom, you know, of any kind of potential interference. the former national secu...

To me, particularly after this latest set of sanctions was voted with wide margin on a bipartisan basis to impose. and again, this singular indifference to the threat posed by russia starting with the interference, and that sort of thing is continuing, and they're bent on undermining our fundamental system. this is, to me, the greater threat here to this country. >> is he afraid to stand up to them? >> i don't know that he's afraid to stand up to them, but i agree with jim, we've not taken the actions we need to put the sanctions aside to defend ourselves against russian interference. don, the...

His criticism over the fbi and the russia investigation. we're going easy tonight on russia. joining me back, james clapper and michael hayden. the president was to impose sanctions on blacklisted russian intelligence. he will attack the department of justice, he will attack the fbi, but he won't impose sanctions on russia. why? >> particularly when this last sanctions was voted on a bipartisan basis to impose. again, this singular indifference to the threat posed by russia starting with the interference, and that sort of thing is continuing, and they're bent on undermining our fundamental sys...

It is, in a sense with respect kind of a tragedy, given the service, long and distinguished service that he rendered in the army, over 30 years. lots of deployed time in iraq and afghanistan. you have to acknowledge that. i think the overall arching implication for me, the first thing that came to mind is that, at least right now the rule of law does prevail in this country. that to me is very important. and i do think the larger interest here is served is to try to understand exactly what was going on with the transition campaign and the russians. we need to get to the bottom of what today re...

Evidence of that. now, if anyone would know about that, it would be mike flynn. so hopefully, given the terms of his plea bargain, his agreement, that the truth on this will come out. because to me, what's even more important whether or not there was collusion, which is hugely important, is the threat posed by the russians, and the administration's singular indifference to that threat. that to me is what -- in terms of long-term safety for the country is that. >> general james clapper, thank you so much. coming up next, we'll take a look at how deep flynn's ties to russia might run. stay wit...