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And my position is the same as sherrod brown, very sensible, put a size cap on the banks, make them smaller. as an additional piece to the other regulation reforms. that's my views and the senators' views on what it would take to reduce the risk associated with the banks too big to fail. but this group calling itself too big to fail is wrapping itself in some of the same appearances. when you see the tv ad, no mistaking it, this is a kill the bill ad, and we now understand this very clearly and we will go after them most strenuously, i can assure you. >> one of the tensions that happened among...

Big to fail, and very sensible, put a size cap on the banks, make them smaller. as an additional piece to reform. that's my views and the senators' views on what it would take to reduce the risk associated with the banks too big to fail. but calling themselves stop too big to fail is wrapping itself in some of the same appearances. when you see the tv ad, no mistaking it, this is a kill the bill ad, and we now understand this very clearly and we will go after them most strenuously, i can assure you. >> one of the tensions that happened among progressives on health reform is when the bill got w...

>> some democrats have seized on the news that goldman sachs fraud case as sort of a momentum builder from financial regulatory reform. in fact, senator dodd yesterday made the argument that his financial regulatory reform bill would have stopped what happened at goldman sachs had those new rules been in place. do you agree with that assessment? >> no, not quite. i think his bill is moving in the right direction but he's taking very small steps in part because the financial sector lobby is far too strong and has a lock over some parts of washington. what you really need to do is implement and ...

Firms? >> of course we should be. gretchen is absolutely right. but of course one of the push-backs that we're hearing, a little bit behind the scenes, is if you mess with the banks, this is actually jamie diamond's line in public, if you mess with the banks, if you demonize us, this will disrupt credit and you won't get your economic recovery and you won't get your jobs back. the size of the banks gives them an unbelievable hold over all dimensions of public policy. it's kind of scary. >> how do you address too big to fail? >> you have to break up the big banks. there's no other way around it...