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If conservatives were lukewarm or even upset about trauma care and the health insurance plan and all of that jazz, this is something that will make them stand up and cheer. this is the most conservative, conceptually conservative -- i think you nailed it. it is not about the dollars, the concept of what the scope and role and appropriate place for the federal government is in american life. this is the most conservative, by those standards, the most conservative budgets ever put forward by chief executives. >> martha: we are talking about slashing programs, 28, 30%. richard, the argument that ...

Or even upset about trauma care and the health insurance plan and all of that jazz, this is something that will make them stand up and cheer. this is the most conservative, conceptually conservative -- i think you nailed it. it is not about the dollars, the concept of what the scope and role and appropriate place for the federal government is in american life. this is the most conservative, by those standards, the most conservative budgets ever put forward by chief executives. >> martha: we are talking about slashing programs, 28, 30%. richard, the argument that was made, you know what, we don...

>> you know, ed, i respect the conservative tradition. i have a lot of conservative friends. but conservatism right now has really been degraded and narrowed. it's only principle right now in american conservatism is never, ever, ever, ever raise taxes on the rich, even if it means slashing programs for the neediest people. you look at what they did today. 40% of the total cuts came in programs for low and moderate-income people. food stamps, medicaid, children's health insurance. 200,000 low-income kids would lose school meals. and you know what? if they want to raise the defense budget, if t...

Heartless is what i call it. i can't think of a better word. but, e.j., this is going to hurt people and they want to give breaks to the wealthiest americans. i mean, how do you describe what's unfolding here? >> you know, ed, i respect the conservative tradition. i have a lot of conservative friends. but conservatism right now has really been degraded and narrowed. it's only principle right now in american conservatism is never, ever, ever, ever raise taxes on the rich, even if it means slashing programs for the neediest people. you look at what they did today. 40% of the total cuts came in p...