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And i would say that this is a president who loves to fire people. and you know, i mean -- >> reportedly dowd quit. >> right, but -- >> there's always healthy skepticism, were you close to the door when you quit. >> yeah, yeah. if you believe that i've got a bridge that i want to sell you. i agree with what they said, and the president's personal style is very aggressive, very up front, didn't match that of his first counsel. and now, much like with the secretary of state he has decided he wants people around him who exude his persona, an extension of how he's thinking and feeling. that's what...

Laundering component of this. on the should-he-testify part of it, i think there's clear fear that the president in an interview with prosecutors will not tell a coherent and truthful story, and they're trying to set the groundwork for, we don't need to do this, your political point, because there's no there there. the problem is the president undermined that strategy by saying repeatedly, not only does he want to testify, but would love to testify under oath. john dowd said, in al hague style, i'm in charge here. i'll make the decision who testifies or not. but ultimately, of course, as lawye...