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With him. so mueller is obviously in trying to stitch up russia and the u.s. looking very hard at stone. >> and whether or not stone was a potential back channel. julia, i know from reporting have i done with others here that the witnesses that robert mueller is so far spoken to, they have been asked by mueller's team pretty pointed questions about roger stone. and what did roger stone know? what was he doing? did he really leave the campaign in 2015? stone says he quit. the trump team said he was fired. but did he really leave or was there some sort of unofficial role that he was playing behi...

Case against impeaching trump." cnn legal analyst anne milgram. professor dershowitz, this reporting that mueller's team is willing to reduce the number of questions that ask about potential obstruction, do you this that's going to be enough to get the president to sit down? >> well, it's a very smart move by mueller because it's not about quantity, it's about quality and substance. if they can just get the president to testify about what his motive was in firing comey or about why he spoke to comey about being -- going soft on flynn, those are potential perjury traps. so mueller is very smart...

Suspicion. so mueller is deep into this. at that meeting, other e-mails we have not seen. they've not all been leaked to the press. i think we're going to hear a lot more about this. if cohen, in fact, was at a meeting when trump approved this or, you know, coordinated this meeting with the russian lawyer, this sounds like collusion to me. >> yes, is it enough that it would be his word, michael cohen, or perhaps he'll say there were other people present, he's willing to share those names with bob mueller. is that i guess verifiable enough? >> well, i think, fred, that there may be con temp rai...

Would have to believe that again, manafort, trump jr., jared kushner didn't tell him about the meeting. why is he lying about it. you don't try to cover up things that are on the up and up. so mueller has probably already done the most important corroboration which is of the phone records. >> that's right. >> the congressional republicans may not have gotten and we can be certain that mueller has it. if trump junior was lying about that, he is getting charged with perjury. and mueller uses that to squeeze the president of the united states. >> that is very interesting. 20 times that trump and ...

Larger conspiracy and they're going to try to string them together. there was a lot of circumstantial evidence that make it look really bad for the president. >> paul, what do you make of that? >> first a caution. michael cohen is a shady character who wants to snitch in order to keep himself out of prison, so everything he says has to be taken with skepticism. that said, president trump's version of events is even harder to believe. all of these coincidences. you'd have to believe that, again, manafort, trump junior, jared kushner didn't tell him about this meeting. why is he lying about it a...