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That purposefully is gates. they did it together. so gates can convict manafort in virginia in my estimation. and then you don't have to worry about the d.c. case which is a little more complicated because it's international money laundering conspiracy stuff. >> so if you're manafort, is it too late for you to try to strike a deal? >> no. because i think that mueller really wants to hear from manafort. i don't know what mueller thinks manafort can offer, whether it's the so-called collusion or whether it's just knowledge of the counter intelligence work. it may not involve the president or any...

Analyst. he is a former federal prosecutor and special assistant to mueller at the justice department. good to see you. so mueller has reportedly flipped gates. pleading guilty. he was thinking about his family, his future, the dynamics there. how worried does manafort need to be? >> i think very worried. there are two indictments against manafort. one in d.c. and one in virginia. the one in virginia which carries about 30 years if he were convicted of all counts is a tax and failure to report foreign bank accounts. we know from the pleadings that gate submitted in his plea that he and manafor...

For mueller and team to see how high, how far it goes? you got these plea deals. you got charges with the objective to see if there is more? we haven't heard from the president similar to, you know, prior occasions when we have heard from him. is the white house or is the president worried? >> well, they -- i don't know is the answer. it depends on what manafort and gates have to say with respect to them. you think of mueller mandate as counter intelligence, collusion, matters which may have arisen out of it which is the manafort indictments, financial crimes, and obstruction. manafort is cent...

Also the minority party. so the regulations say we're going to shed sunlight on any interference with the investigation, and really they have three parts to when the reporting to congress is triggered. one is when you appoint a special counsel, the second is when you end a special counsel. and the third and most important is if the acting attorney general in some way says no to the special counsel on something. so mueller who's a very by the books person, who would ordinarily follow doj policy in every circumstance, would look at these regulations and if he has the goods, and we don't know if ...

Main foreign -- the main contact with foreign contacts during the transition. he also was wearing the other hat of being a businessman as he was working to divest his interests. so mueller's team could be looking to see if there was any potential leverage or what kind of conversations were taking place, what was discussed in those conversations, anything from a quid pro quo to something more mundane. there's no evidence that that occurred. this could also be mueller's team looking to check the box. a lot of these meetings were reported in the press, so he could just be looking to make sure the...