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Nbc news he will be the one to confirm whether he sits down with an interview with mueller, and he hasn't made a decision on whether an interview with mueller would happen. you would say, mr. dowd, that's not your decision? >> well, he could plead the fifth amendment. that would be a reason to say i'm not going to testify. >> is that the only way he can refuse -- >> i think it is. who knows what someone could come up with. >> but pleading the fifth is the only way out of this. >> i think so, and i'm not sure that's a way out of it. >> pr wise, a terrible idea. >> a, and b, i don't know if muel...

No lawyer present. no opportunity to know the questions in advance. donald trump unscripted, uncontrolled. >> that's the last thing they want. >> a nightmare, donald trump in a grand jury room. they'll do anything to avoid that. he won't plead the fifth. he has to answer the questions so they'll accept anything short of. interrogatories, questions, written questions, maybe an informal interview. remember, if you lie to a law enforcement official, even not under oath, that is a serious federal crime. so mueller has the leverage here, the legal leverage because he can threaten the grand jury sub...

Investigate. so mueller had to go back according to manafort to ask for additional authority from rosenstein to investigate the russian money laundering. lot of problems. most important, factually not true. you said rosenstein has been quiet about the investigation, just saying that mueller is good man. but actually in his december testimony last month said something more than that. to the extent there's any ambiguity about it, mueller has received my permission to these matters. quote is longer than that. but it's clear that mueller has done exactly what lawsuit asked him to do, go and ask fo...

Carl bernstein. thank you so much, both of you, for joining me. i appreciate it. >> thank you. >> happy to be here. >> bob, let me start with you on the president's increasing attacks on the fbi. he's called the fbi tainted. he said, its reputation is in tatters. he said that he has the absolute right to do whatever he wants to at the justice department. i know you have been working on a book on president trump, what do you -- what strikes you when you hear all of that? >> i think that is a mistake. clearly, now trump is, at least for the moment, saying he expects to be treated fairly by muell...

Party, for the president of the united states, this goes way beyond just having a political opinion like everybody does. so mueller, i have said since day one, since he was appointed, he's bad news. he's out for a scalp. he would love to get trump scalped. he would love to be the hero of the left and take out donald trump. >> what do you make of that? >> well, i'm laughing at mueller being the hero of the left. he's a republican who was appointed special counsel by a republican, who was investigating a republican. i don't understand where the scalp hunting is coming from. with regard to going ...