no lawyer present. no opportunity to know the questions in advance. donald trump unscripted, uncontrolled. >> that's the last thing they want. >> a nightmare, donald trump in a grand jury room. they'll do anything to avoid that. he won't plead the fifth. he has to answer the questions so they'll accept anything short of. interrogatories, questions, written questions, maybe an informal interview. remember, if you lie to a law enforcement official, even not under oath, that is a serious federal crime. so mueller has the leverage here, the legal leverage because he can threaten the grand jury subpoena. but what i think ultimately they would prefer, the defense attorneys, is to make all kinds of proposalproposals, to not in grand jury subpoena so they can say, well, we offered to cooperate but mueller didn't accept it. i don't think that will happen. i think there will be a