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Industry. the same industry that funds all these people in congress that are making it easier for them to do this. >> it's a bit more complicated than that. >> steve: is not that much more complicated because -- releasing oxycodone in 1996, saying the problems about opioids were nothing to be proud about. they had to pay $600 million in fines because of their lives. >> there's a real issue having to do with the inevitable conflict between drug control and pain control. this is a real issue. not invented by the pharmaceutical industry. you have lots of americans suffering from pain needlessly b...

Simms conducts group therapy with cutters and other self-mutilators assigned to wabash's secured housing unit. >> if i see my blood, in another world i'm somebody totally different from myself. that's the only time i can actually, you know, feel real, feel alive, feel like everything's going to be okay. >> simms says this particular group does not injure themselves for the typical reasons. >> they self-injured as a way to control their level of pain. that when they're in so much pain they don't know what to do, they are starting to feel like suicide, self-injury cuts their pain down. so it is ...

With cutters and other self-mutilators assigned to wabash's secured housing unit. >> if i see my blood, in another world i'm somebody totally different from myself. that's the only time i can actually, you know, feel real, feel alive, feel like everything's going to be okay. >> simms says this particular group does not injure themselves for the typical reasons. >> they self-injured as a way to control their level of pain. that when they're in so much pain they don't know what to do, they are starting to feel like suicide, self-injury cuts their pain down. so it is pain control. >> you give the...

>> 11 range, thank you. >> prison psychologist mary ruth simms conducts group therapy with cutters and other self-mutilators assigned to wabash's secured housing unit. >> once i see my blood, i'm in another world, i'm somebody totally different from myself. that's the only time i can actually, you know, feel real, feel alive, feel like everything's going to be okay. >> simms says this particular group does not injure themselves for the typical reasons. >> they self-injured as a way to control their level of pain. that when they're in so much pain they don't know what to do, they are starting t...

>> 11. >> 11 range, thank you. >> prison psychologist mary ruth simms conducts group therapy with cutters and other self-mutilators assigned to wabash's secured housing unit. >> if i see my blood, in another world i'm somebody totally different from myself. that's the only time i can actually, you know, feel real, feel alive, feel like everything's going to be okay. >> simms says this particular group does not injure themselves for the typical reasons. >> they self-injured as a way to control their level of pain. that when they're in so much pain they don't know what to do, they are starting t...