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Or serious about getting families out of work back to work, then it needs to get serious about our national debt. how do we do it? first we stop spending money we don't have. >> i mean, give me your response to that point. >> look, it is patently wrong on the numbers. they call paul ryan a numbers guy. he gets them wrong as often as not. the budget deficit is a shared gdp of 10% in 20099, last year it was 4% headed down to 3%. that's the larnlest four-year decline in the budget deficit since the mid 1950s. and almost 80% of those cuts have come from the spending side, not the revenue side. >> ...

Spectrum, which would be a pretty smart way to talk about tax reform, but what heather was saying is on the spending side of the budget, it cuts the spending programs and domestic discretionary by block granting medicaid and part of food stamps in a way that the lower income spectrum would bear a very heavy burden of this. on the other hand, what this budget does do is focuses on the need to get our medium and longer term debt under control and that's something a lot of policy makers are running away from. heather mentioned the deficit improvements. the problem is, they have been for this year...

Made some savings, and we're trying to push it off for the future, which leaves some risk. >> i know your organization has been particularly mindful of the growing debt but as we look back, did some of the austerity measures, did they actually hurt the economy in a palpable way? >> think there's no question that the deficit measures that have been done so far, one, that was never really the focus. it's not the immediate deficit we need to worry about because as you've been pointing out, the company has been growing slowly. it wud take longer to phase in. we raised tax rates instead of overhaul...

Write something like this and think this way. what this pope is talking about what's happening in this world and trying to -- >> is reality. >> yeah. >> reality. >> okay. so there's it no argument here. willie, you're all for bloomb g bloomberg's piece, right? >> no, i'm not. >> good. let's move on. steve ratner, you've got charts on the spending debate which seems to be a debate in washington. >> yeah. i've got one chart as you know, the house last week passed the budget agreement. it's still in front of the senate where althere's a lot of pushback from conservative republican senators who th...

More expansive government, and you have a republican president coming to office and offers you, hey, no -- medicare, you know, part d, no child left behind, you're going to work a little bit because you're getting a little bit what you want. >> the republicans from their base perspective, they were sent there to do things like stop spending, and stop obama care and things like that. so if their voters are telling them the first thing they want them to do is stop, either on spending side or program side, that's what -- that's what they're doing. amazingly enough, when newt gingrich took over in...