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Swinging. a lot of people probably not thought about him as a possible contender. i don't know, anti-obama quite possibly. >> he's using really harsh rhetoric, gretchen, you're right. i think this is a harbinger of things to come. come on, obama care is wildly unpopular. a lot of the policies, nsa, a lot of democrats thinking what this guy is saying privately but they don't have the guts to say it publicly. i think you'll see a lot of democrats say, listen, i'm distancing myself. >> i oppose obama on nsa although he made some steps in the right direction on nsa. >> please. third party. >> all ...

Edward snowden. if you agree with the fact edward snowden should be penalized, then you can't lay claim to the nsa doing all these additional -- >> what else has he not told us. >> i agree he broke the law. i agree also it may have caused something good. that's a classic elementary school hypothetical. somebody breaks the law and good comes out of it. guess what, they are technically guilty but good may have come out of it. >> spy panel, we learned a lot. thank you for coming in. at least president talking about nsa surveillance may take attention ay from dismal poll numbers. president's app...

Know. there's a big debate there. until that's resolved we can't move forward holding the nsa accountable. >> what about the fact policiest expanded on this particular policy. >> there's some real irony here in all of this. he realized once in office he actually needed the intelligence he had criticized the former administration for collecting. going back to the other point with the corporations, the companies, the leaks that snowden provided has really caused a tremendous breach in trust between the u.s. government and these tech companies that were helping us at times properly. it's a major ...

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