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There is stacey abrams, having people trying to demand recounts and interfere with the process, they have unleashed a hurricane, i don't think -- they never think -- they never apologize for what they do and they never think it will come back to hit them, but it will. mark: important, i disagree with some of our friendly legal analysts who say, president cannot pardon himself from state changes, we're not talking about average citizens, under federalism ak president cannot and should not reach into states and pardon individuals for violating state law. that is nothing to do with this. the ques...

There is stacey abrams, having people trying to demand recounts and interfere with the process, they have unleashed a hurricane, i don't think -- they never think -- they never apologize for what they do and they never think it will come back to hit them, but it will. mark: important, i disagree with some of our friendly legal analysts who say, president cannot pardon himself from state changes, we're not talking about average citizens, under federalism ak president cannot and should not reach into states and pardon individuals for violating state law. that is nothing to do with this. the ques...

We're doing a lot over the fake pile of allegations. right? there are 470 odd voter suppression laws racing through 48 states. you can't out organize against voter suppression. it's so operationalized. it's so brazen that the remedy to just vote them out is something that republicans are trying to make impossible. >> i mean, we can see two contrasting things going on. i think the republicans understand this. i will give you two examples, texas and michigan. michigan made it easier for voters. gave voters more access, increased turnout not only of democrats and independents but of republicans. ...

Senate, ultimately, though, they're expected to be vetoed as you're aware because the governor is a democrat. what do you say to people who say, well, it is not going to become law, why do you think they should still pay attention to moves like this? >> it could become law if just after in an upcoming election or two, you know, the balance of power in the state changes and we don't want to be this close to 18-year-olds being able to bring guns to campus in the first place. we need people in wisconsin and every state across the country to mobilize at the state level to go and lobby and show up ...

Investment that did not pay off last year but that could pay off ten years from now as the state changes and as it becomes -- you know, it is a red state now. it could trend toward purple. so you have to do both things. i think you have to -- you have to play in those big, high-profile races, but you definitely have to do more on the local level to make those decisions that really count and that decide our national politics. i mean, you know, the playing field for the house is warped and it shouldn't be. >> another point james makes in that interview is we shouldn't be trying, he says about de...