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Devote yourself to giving new ideas and creating things and stuff like that. you could make a living as a writer if you could tap copywriting. >> i'm with susan. it doesn't have to be all or nothing. i think it's essentially a good idea but it's gone too far. it's not just with the internet or the media. my dad is a farmer and one of the things that drives him completely crazy is the patent on seeds and fertilizers. >> that's a huge problem for america. that means that the publishers, the people who have put themselves in the middle are making all of the profits and we need americans to do bet...

Scale that they can reverse that and millions of workers in the united states are trying to figure out how not to let the new economy happen to them. we're trying to figure out how to get in the driver's seat of a new economy. whether they are co-ops, can campaigns, new forms of bargaining, we're going to have to take all of those tools in our toolbox and fight for a new economy. >> none of those things have any effect on overall worker's conditions so that you can redistribute income between workers and some make more and some make less. >> with these bargaining relationships, one of the ques...

Declaim against it. >> it's like having industrial revolution spread through europe and democracy. one of the interesting thing is that you have industrial revolution go so far and then the state messing things up and the inventors would move to the next european country where they could move. >> people should read the story of how the first rubber plant was smuggled out of brazil by the british. it's an incredible caper. >> this is a nice segway to talking about language of abundance and increasing returns to scale and new ideas and what's the problem with our copyright system and internet ac...

Problem worse and that lowers the return to investing in a heavy industry, that lowers the average real interest rate and the problem that they face is that the real interest rate is negative and that makes it difficult for us to achieve full employment. so you're making that problem harder by taxing carbon. >> so we don't have to have one -- >> i think that's totally wrong. >> when you have a low real interest rate, typically you get a lot of growth and a lot of employment. >> he's talking about a negative interest rate. >> yeah, but a real interest rate. what a carbon tax will do is drive ac...